My note on Ketamine raised some response from the net, and I thought I would respond to mind-l in general, as well as to the specific folks who were curious.
*IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER* I am a scientific PhD, not a physician Neither I nor my employer take any responsibility for its accuracy or possible use.
First, ketamine is in current use as both a veternary and a human anesthetic. It is called "dissociative" in action, which means that the mind is "separated" from the body. In many cases, this separation results in profound hallucinations and the sensation of entering another reality. In human use, a benzodiazapine like Versed is generally used along with ketamine to induce amnesia concerning the "emergence reactions".
The most easily obtained reference about ketamine is the Physicians Desk Reference. Under the heading "Ketalar", this gives a great deal of information about the drug. Of course, since this is a general medical reference, much of the info of interest to mind-l is not present, but it should be read anyway.
Perhaps the most important property of ketamine is that, despite the induction of both anesthesia and dissociation, the cough and gag reflexes *USUALLY* are not affected. This means that, contrary to most other agents which will produce anesthesia and/or unconsciousness, it is very unlikely that a person using ketamine will aspirate their own saliva and other excretions. This is *NOT* guarenteed, but is a pretty good bet. Solo use, however, remains dangerous.
Ketamine is generally available for non-medical uses as ketamine hydrochloride. Some major chemical houses carry it at a cost of about $10/gm. I don't know if there are other sources which are cheaper, or if the veterinary form is easily available.
Dosages are discussed in the PDR, but are generally in the range of 100-500 mg. Conventional useage is intravenous or intramuscular, but "recreational" use is apparently more often through insufflation (snorting) or solution ingestion. These latter approaches are probably only effective with the hydrochloride form, but the reported doses are similar to the conventional medical doses.
As in all such experiments, if you must do this, be sure of your materials and start slow, with small doses separated by enough time to really come back to Earth between experiments.
Message-ID: <185302Z23111993@anon.penet.fi> Newsgroups: alt.drugs From: firstname.lastname@example.org (the ticktockman) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 18:47:29 UTC Subject: Re: Ketamine trip >I tried to get some info from the net gurus as to what a correct dosage of >Ketamine would be, but never got a response. So I guesstimated, and took >4 mL of Ketaset (equal to 400mg Ketamine HCl). I had an empty stomach. I >took it orally, pouring it down my throat with a spoon - >I had heard that it tasted awful, which it did, so I avoided my tongue, >and chased it down with an immediate mouthful of orange. No problem.
FWIW, a friend of mine who does K regularly insists that the _only_ way to do it is intramuscularly (i.e., once you try it that way, you will always want to do it that way). He says an optimal dose this way is 100 mg (ml). It puts him in a state where he is completely divorced from his body and is projected into some astral plane as pure consciousness. He says you could drag his body up and down the stairs while he is in this state and he would have no idea that this was happening. To him, doing K this way is as close as he can come to dying without dying, and it is always a beautiful, wondrous experience. He claims that taking it orally produces nowhere near as intense an experience, but you seem like you had a really excellent trip. I've never done the stuff myself, just thought I'd pass along this second-hand account for anyone interested ...
From: email@example.com (Steve J. Quest)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 94 19:19:36 GMT
> >Does anybody know about this? I wonder: what do we have to tell vetinarians as >to our pets' symptoms to get them to prescribe ketamine? How expensive is it? >What's the recommended dosage for us humans? Any warnings from those who have >done it? Any other sources besides vets? Can you advise it? etc., etc.
If you think that you will be able to go into a vets office and say that you are going to anesthetize your cat, forget it. They only use this drug for their surgical procedures, there is no reason why anyone would need to buy this drug. Think about stealing the drug instead, or fake that you are a vet and purchase them from a wholesale drug supplier. Vet pharmaceuticals are not watched by DEA all that much, and the distributors are very lax. At least they were when I was in the business.
Ketamine is used as a human and animal anesthetic. Vets use it for cats or any small animal and reptiles. I can't say what an IM (intra- muscular) injection is like, but an IV injection is very similar to when someone takes a crowbar and smacks you as hard as they can to the base of your skull! Don't be standing up when you do this, you will hit the floor hard! Better yet, be in an easy chair, you will immediately lose all body control, very frightening to say the least. Experiment with a few mg at a time. The insert states that the recommended dosage for anesthesia (5 to 10 minute duration) is 2mg/kg. A 70kg adult would then use 140mg or about 1 and a half CC's of injectable for a 10 minute duration of anesthesia. Of course it is the coming OFF not the going ON that is where all the wierd stuff occurs. Medically these are called emergence reactions, but I call them hallucinations! :) If being awake and paralyzed doesn't scare you, the hallucination is cool. If it frightens you, or if you become frightened, you will snowball into a very bad trip. Mood is everything on Ketamine, and like all recreational drugs, after you have used it a few times, you get a feel for it and are not so apt to be frightened by it. For those who have smoked angel dust (PCP; HOG; Phencyclidine) the effects are about the same, only you retain less awareness while under Ketamine. I can definately say that you want to take a dosage about 1/4 the recommended dose to not totally go into anesthesia, but just dangle around the half conscious state. A very cool feeling! :) For me it is about 40mg injected IV with a tuberculin syringe (1cc 27g 1/2). A little more for a little deeper, but going all the way into anesthesia is not all that special, you can't really think or remember while under the full dose, I don't recommended it on your first try. Always have a health care professional available while you try this to maintain your airway should you have a negative reaction to the drug. As with all noxious chemicals, you will feel like shit for several hours after the experience, especially if you try to walk, carry on a conversation, or do any activity that requires mental clarity. BE CAREFUL! Learn about anesthesia before attempting to play with anesthetic drugs................sq
-- firstname.lastname@example.org \ ( ( | ) ) All opinions expressed reflect ================================> /_\ those of AVR Technologies, our ==> MicroPower FM Broadcasting / /\_/\ staff and Gozur the Destructor ============================================================================= From: crow@CSOS.ORST.EDU (Corey Green) Newsgroups: alt.drugs Subject: Excellent Ketamine Read Date: 27 May 1994 16:29:12 GMT Message-ID: <2s574o$gup@jadzia.CSOS.ORST.EDU>
From: email@example.com (Paul Rossouw) Newsgroups: alt.drugs Subject: Ketamine Message-ID: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: 24 Jul 94 22:56:00 GMT
The search for a safe general anesthetic led pharmacologists in 1963 to the phencyclidines (CI-395, PCP, Sernyl, and congener CI-400, cyclohexamine). Although producing adequate anesthesia, there were marked trance-like psychotic reactions. Further research led to ketamine, first introduced by the U of Michigan in 1965, which produced less prominent psychotic reactions. Parke-Davis mass-produced it (CI-581, Ketalar) as a safe general anesthetic, with rapid onset and recovery and a wide margin of safety, and it was extensively used in the Vietnam War.
Ketamine produces what is called a "dissociative" anesthetic state, meaning ego-mind is split or dis-associated from body-reality. Aka OBE, astral projection, soul travel, xtc, etc. Yes, back in the hospital beds, the patients were coming round and bringing reports of the most amazing trips ....
Medics aren't trained in metaphysics, so they labeled these peculiar experiences as "emergent phenomena" and K began getting very bad press. How can we control these horrible hallucinations, they asked themselves. What other chemical can we give to our patients so that they'll remember nothing of this? Of course, the solution was obvious. Treat patients like humans, not product. Tell them that they are going to trip. Explain what might happen. Give them tips to cope with any problems. When they come round, leave them alone in a quite place to recover, etc. A study was done showing that this was an effective way of reducing adverse patient reaction. It was largely ignored.
Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it - various versions available.
Paul --- . SLMR 2.1a . No left turn unstoned ---- --- Digitec Online --- Johannesburg, South Africa --- tel +27 11 476-2008 --- ====================================================================== From: email@example.com (Paul Rossouw) Newsgroups: alt.drugs Subject: Ketamine Message-ID: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: 24 Jul 94 22:57:00 GMT
imho K is a tool for rapidly, and safely, accessing hyper-dimensional realities (usually, 0-gravity) which exist vibrational frequencies away from baseline beta frequencies. K allows you to control the frequency your body-mind (CNS-DNA) is tuned to and allows you to operate at much higher vibrational frequencies. The feeling when coming back Earth-side is that every molecule has been recharged.
Think of a TV set tuned only to the Sports channel. Only picking up sports-related info. Now, give that person a device to tune the TV in to other frequencies. Wow, other info. Food, weather, sit-coms, news, religion, porn, nature, music.... get the picture? We all have this reality tuning ability within us. Yessiree, K mimics the effects of an indogenous neurotransmitter, lovingly called angeldustine. Secreted at moments of xtreme stress and/or spiritual xtc. This chemical explains the OBEs, astral-projections, NDEs, other worldly experiences, Xtra-terrestrial contacts, etc. accounts you might have read about in your favorite spiritual guide book.
I recommend you begin by making friends with your body-mind. You laugh, but this is your launch pad and your home upon your return. You need to have absolute faith that your body-mind will take care of itself 100% while you're away. Basically, you need to check for any self-destruct programs you might have hard-wired. (Lilly screwed up many times because of this). Meditation helps, but I recommend spending lots of time in a float-tank. "I'm going now body. Take care. Be back later". When you return the first thing you do is a body check: Heart? OK. Breathing? OK. Senses? Eyes - Out of focus, etc .... (This is especially important when floating on K in the tank). Please note that when you are not using your body (hardware), other non-physical entities (software) might ask to use it. This is aka channeling.
With practice using K you can begin to give your body-mind very specific instructions, which it will perform with robotic precision. Not only, stand up, balance, take three steps forward, press the HiFi power switch in, and so on... But also very intricate movements that demand incredible fine-neuromotor control. I mean complete a jumbled Rubic's Cube in under a minute, play the Violin like Paganini, shoot that arrow better than Robin Hood, type up an award-winning magazine article. Here is a new market. Jack a tab and play like a pro. But first, may we suggest a little multi-media programming in the tank.
Oh yes, don't forget your affirmation before a trip. This is like a prayer - the Monroe institute provide an excellent one (should I post it). Here you affirm that you (and friend body-mind) are good kinda people. You are doing this to explore your greater potential. Any other good folk out there who want to help can do so. May you come back in one piece. Amen.
Paul --- . SLMR 2.1a . No left turn unstoned ---- --- Digitec Online --- Johannesburg, South Africa --- tel +27 11 476-2008 --- ============================================================================= Newsgroups: alt.drugs From: email@example.com (Mark Browning) Subject: Bad news about Ketamine Message-ID: <7AUG199413582287@utarlg.uta.edu> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 1994 19:58:00 GMT
I am not too surprised by the resistance to it. It happens with virtualy every drug. Does anyone know what neurotransmitter is being suppressed and how long I have to wait?
Thanks Mark ============================================================================= Newsgroups: alt.drugs From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Matt Thomas) Subject: Re: Bad news about Ketamine Message-ID:
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 00:02:27 GMT : Yes it is a small amount, however Ketamine is supplied in 100mg/ml (10ml) : bottles. : It would not be wise to add the bottle to 100cc of fluid, if did this, : and you were up to taking 0.4cc (40mg) IV you would need a 6cc syringe to : hold your 4.0cc (40mg) of diluted fluid. Let me tell you it is sometimes : hard enough to get 0.4cc in, let alone 4cc. Also if you diluted it in : this manor you would not be able to take the Ketamine Sub Cu. One : can safely take about 2cc of fluid Sub Cu, anything over that and you : run the risk of getting a sterile abscess (a very nasty ulcer of the : skin that takes a long time to heal and scares badly).
-- =============================================================================== | Matt Thomas | ...endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable | | email@example.com | rights: Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. | | Atlanta, GA | _\|/_ L E G A L I Z E M A R I J U A N A _\|/_ | =============================================================================== (If you agree with that, then anon FTP to: ftp.netcom.com pub/mcthomas/hemp) ============================================================================= From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Paul Rossouw) Newsgroups: alt.drugs Subject: Ketamine, use for Message-ID: <email@example.com> Date: 18 Jul 94 02:49:00 GMT
Use for Ketamine:
As a Virtual Reality software design tool
K has vast potential as a tool to be used in the creation and evaluation of virtual realities. Anyone involved with the development of VR applications will attest to the inherent problems involved in coming up with, prototyping, and testing ideas. Much time/money is wasted on ideas that turn out to be inappropriate. On the other hand, when you take K you get transported to what is essentially another reality; to fly around, explore and interact in that other reality. It seems highly feasible that while on K, one's attention could be focused on the creation and exploration of a world that you later plan to re-create with a VR toolkit.
To give a brief example. On K I occasionally go to a "Museum space", usually when coming back form another K place. In this space I experience myself as a Museum exhibition. I am a life-size statue, with my back to one of the walls, floating about 20 meters from the ground. As I look down, I can see people wondering in and out of the Museum. They are looking at the various exhibits and statues scattered around the space, some on the ground, others on podiums, others floating above the ground like myself. Everything seems odd, yet strangely familiar. Think of visiting an Egyptian museum, to get a picture in your mind of what I am describing. I attentively watch the goings on for a while, everything seems meaningful and insights keep popping into my head. After a certain period of watching, I unhitch, the Museum banks to one side and I start "flowing" (although I don't flow like water, more akin to a toothpaste tube being squeezed), and head off to another K space.
What has this to do with VR design? I also thought nothing about it until I read Gelernter's book "Mirror World's, or the day the world gets put into a shoebox, how it will happen and what it will mean" (I'm quoting from memory so this might be slightly wrong). Therein, Gelernter describes what he calls a *Turingware Trellis*, which is a VR environment where humans and software can intermingle. Raw data flows into the bottom of the trellis and becomes more meaningful as it raises up. Towards the top, human faces start appearing, individuals poking their heads into the virtual space. The diagram in the book shows a number of disembodied faces, floating high amongst a wall of data which is piped in from the bottom. The similarities were clear and the idea flashed that my "Museum space" was really a "Turingware Trellis".
Could one not use K then to explore and prototype virtual worlds, and ideas like the Turingware Trellis? How else can we prepare ourselves for the Mirror Worlds of the future? What is it going to be like to float around in virtual worlds, watching data and people. Disorientation, aesthetics, navigation, usability, etc can be addressed from K spaces, without lengthy and costly VR development. This notion is not a new one. John Lilly, in an Omni interview, mentioned that the cast and crew of the film Altered States had prepared themselves by taking K. In the 1960's there were many similar suggestions about chemicals like LSD. Progressive Architecture (1966), actually carried an article called "LSD: A design tool". My idea is a natural extension of this type of thinking.
I will be exploring this a bit further in the next few weeks, so any comments or suggestions are most welcome. Also, what about other uses for K?
--- . SLMR 2.1a . My reality check just bounced. ---- --- Digitec Online --- Johannesburg, South Africa --- tel +27 11 476-2008 --- ============================================================================= o KETAMINE ('Vitamin K', 'Special K') //\ // \ CH | || | 3 | || | \\ /\ N--H \\/ \/ | /\ O Cl / \// | | | | \ / \/ Ketamine is chemically related to PCP ('Angel Dust'). PCP, a dangerous American street drug rather than a psychedelic, is characterized by resulting in frequent bad trips, psychotic reactions and extreme violence in its users. But Ketamine appears to be much safer than PCP. It is still used in human medicine unlike PCP. Currently Ketamine ('Ketalar') is a prescription only medicine rather than a controlled drug in Britain. It is a powerful drug used as a general anaesthetic, which has some strange psychedelic effects when used at low doses (25-100mg). The usual medical form is a liquid when it is injected intramuscularly. American street users heat the liquid to obtain a white powder which is smoked or snorted. Ketamine may be ineffective when taken by mouth - although one report from Denmark claims it to be orally active at the 200mg level with the effects becoming apparent slowly. The effects are stronger and more profound than acid but last only an hour or so. The subject should remain still. Experiences of the mind leaving the body and floating in space, or even death are common. Bad trips are supposed to be absent but there are serious dangers following heavy use. Dr John Lilly and his fellow researchers have used the drug continuously for weeks. Several believe themselves to have contacted alien intelligences and two committed suicide. Although non-toxic (unlike PCP) it appears to have potential for psychological dependency. K has been used in experimental psychotherapy. In 1991 reports have emerged of K usage by the nightclubbing fraternity in New York. This practice has now spread to London where K is available for about 100 pounds per gram. I am rather surprised by this since clubbers tend to go for stimulating drugs rather than those sedative in nature. ============================================================================= Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives From: firstname.lastname@example.org (William E. White ) Subject: Re: Special K refs ? Message-ID:
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 01:12:29 GMT In article , Part-Time Cosmic Baby wrote: >Does anyone know if there is abuse potencial for Special K ? Yes. There is. >Any long/short term toxicity ? Short term -- yes, it has acute toxicity; like most NMDA/sigma agents, it can suppress respiration in sufficient quantities. I don't know the LD50. Long term -- don't know. Possible rebound excitotoxicity on NMDA receptors if you use it too often -- would would lead to general functional loss, possibly concentrated in areas of memory. >How does it work in the brain ? It acts upon several neuroreceptors: 1) The NMDA receptor (an excitatory amino acid receptor), where it blocks neurotransmission by lodging in the open configuration, preventing ion influx/outflux. 2) The sigma receptor, where it acts as an agonist 3) The PCP2 receptor, where it acts (with micromolar, i.e., not much, potency) to block a reuptake channel. >If this is the case, then it may explain why people may contact alien >inteligences while on K, maybe becase it facilitates that sort of extreme >mental projection of seeing things from an alien's point of view. Perhaps. Of course, keep in mind that the sigma receptor is thought to be involved in schizophrenia (accounting, unlike the dopamine receptor, for both the positive and negative symptoms), and sigma activity has been associated with drug-induced psychosis. YMMV. -- | Bill White +1-614-594-3434 | email@example.com | | 44 Canterbury, Athens OH 45701 | finger for PGP2.2 block | ============================================================================= From: George Greer <76555.1137@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: alt.drugs Subject: Re: Obtaining Ketamine Date: 8 Oct 1994 03:49:53 GMT Message-ID: <firstname.lastname@example.org>
George Greer, M.D. email@example.com
============================================================================= Message-ID: <213331Z16021995@anon.penet.fi> Newsgroups: alt.drugs From: firstname.lastname@example.org Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 21:29:43 UTC Subject: Ketamine facts (was Re: The World according to Ketamine) email@example.com (Kenneth23) writes: >Ketamine is NOT, NOT, (one more time) >>>NOT<<< a tranquilizer!!! It is a >GENERAL ANESTHETIC, used on BOTH humans >>>AND<<< animals, around the >entire country, every single frigging day. If you don't know what a >general anesthetic is, look it up.
To clear up any possible confusions, here are some exerpts from the Ketaset insert. Ketaset is a brand name for ketamine hydrochloride. Ketaset is for animal use only, probably due to the way it is prepared. I have not included the whole insert. I don't have the time right now, unfortunately. But here are some interesting tidbits:
KETASET is a rapid-acting agent whose pharmacological action is characterized by profound analgesia, normal pharyngeal-laryngeal reflexes, mild cardiac stimulation and respiratory depression. Skeletal muscle tone is variable and me be normal, enhanced or diminished. The anesthetic state produced does not fit into the conventional classification of stages of anesthesia, but instead KETASET produces a state of unconsciousness which has been termed "dissociative" anesthesia in that it appears to selectively interrupt association pathways to the brain before producing somesthetic sensory blockade.
In contrast to other anesthetics, protective reflexes, such as coughing and swallowing are maintained under KETASET anesthesia. The degree of muscle tone is dependant upon the level of dose; therefore, variations in body temperature may occur. At low dosage levels there may be an increase in muscle tone and a concamitant slight increase in body temperature. However, at high dosage levels there is some dimunition in muscle tone and a resultant decrease in body temperature, to the point where supplemental heat may be advisable.
[...] Although salivation is occasionally noted, the persistence of the swallowing reflex aids in minimizing the hazards associated with ptyalism. Salivation may be effectively controlled with atropine sulfate in dosages of 0.04 mg/kg (0.02 mg/lb) in cats and 0.01 to 0.05 mg/kg (0.005 to 0.025 mg/lb) in subhuman primates.
Other reflexes, e.g., corneal, pedal, etc., are maintained during KETASET anesthesia, and should not be used as criteria for judging depth of anesthesia. The eyes normally remain open with the pupils dilated. It is suggested that a bland ophthalmic ointment be applied to the cornea if anesthesia is to be prolonged.
[...] In studies involving 14 species of subhuman primates represented by at least 10 anesthetic episodes for each species, the median time to restraint ranged from 1.5 [Aotus trivirgatus (night monkey) and Cebus capucinus (white-throated capuchin)] to 5.3 minutes [Macaca nemestrina (pig-tailed macaque)]. The median duration of restraint ranged between 20 and 55 minutes in all but five species studied. Total time from injection to end of restraint ranged from 43 [Saimiri sciureus (squirrel monkey)] to 183 minutes [Macaca nemestrina (pig-tailed macaque)] after injection. Recovery is generally smooth and uneventful. The duration is dose related.
By single intramuscular injection, KETASET usually has a wide margin of safety in cats and subhuman primates. In cats, cases of prolonged recovery and death have been reported.
Thanks for listening,